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TOPIC: Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage

Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8219

  • cee
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Could Thailand become the first Asian country to legalize same-sex civil unions?
Panel discussion

8pm, July 17, 2013
Members: free Non members: 150 baht

A draft law being readied for parliament seeks to offer gay couples the same legal rights as heterosexual married couples. Despite Thailand's reputation for permissive attitudes towards lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender couplings, these groups still face social opposition. A government survey suggests that nearly 60 percent of Thais are not in favor of gay marriage and activists contend Thai society's take on same-sex couplings is more complex than most assume.

Joining an FCCT panel to discuss the draft law and Thai society's attitude toward same-sex couplings are:

- Anjana Suvarnananda, a pioneer in the LGBTI movement. In 1987, Suvarnanada co-founded Anjaree Group, the first organization in the country to raise the issues of lesbian and gay rights.

- Danai Linjongrat, executive director of the Rainbow Sky Association, a LGBTI rights group. The organization focuses on physical and psychological well-being, policy equality and community building.

- Prempreeda Pramoj Na Ayutthaya is an HIV and AIDS National Programme Officer for UNESCO Bangkok. She has been an advocate for human rights and health rights of transgender people and sexual minorities for more than a decade.

- MP Wiratana Kalayasiri, a Democrat from Songkhla and Chairman of Legal Justice Human Right committee. He is presenting the draft law on same-sex unions to Thailand's parliament.

Joining the Q&A session:

Khun Rungtiwa Tangkanopast and her life partner, Khun Phanlavee Chongtangsattam, have been campaigning to push for legal recognition of their relationship/family as well as for other families.

For more information, call 02-652-0580-1 or e-mail This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


Foreign Correspondents' Club of Thailand
Penthouse, Maneeya Center Building
518/5 Ploenchit Road (connected to the BTS Skytrain Chitlom station)
Patumwan, Bangkok 10330
Tel.: 02-652-0580
E-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Web Site: www.fccthai.com

Hours of Operation -
All departments are open Monday-Friday and closed Saturday, Sunday, and Holidays

Clubhouse
(including Photo Gallery)
10:00 am - 11:00 pm
Restaurant
12:00 noon - 2:30pm
6:00 pm - 9:00pm
Bar
12:00 noon - 11:00 pm
Office
9:30 am - 6:00 pm

http://fccthai.com/items/1140.html
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8220

  • Ninar Lbw
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This is very interesting and something good to look forward. Thank you for the information but could you please tell how to become a member? or how to join this discussion? btw i'm not currently in Thailand now...
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8221

  • roxynemo
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One of my friends in Bkk skyped me yesterday told me she gonna go listen to this discussion tday! Im so happy that this important issues is in progress in Thailand at last! Im exited to get info from my friend later tday/tomorrow
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8222

  • duangkamol
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This is very good and I had planned to attend but a friend is moving here from Taiwan and I need to be here tonight to meet them... I hope that this will come to fruition for those committed couples I know. :)

Grace
Last Edit: 4 years 4 months ago by duangkamol.
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8223

  • 2Worldsin1
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Thanks Cee for letting us know & sharing this info. Searched the site links in hopes of finding a live-stream feed, but their connection with Ustream is currently offline. So no live coverage for those of us who are overseas :(

@Ninar. I checked the site and there is a link for the info you may be looking for.

@Roxynemo. It would be truly awesome if you happen to connect with your friend who is attending this event. I think many of us who are not in Thailand or not able to attend would love to hear about it :)

@Grace. Enjoy a great time with your friend who's coming in from Taiwan :)
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8224

  • roxynemo
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Hi @2worldsin1 ! my friend gonna send me a file with info from this panel discussion , i will send u a private mail and the file with info so u same as me who are outside Thailand can be updated!
Take care kha fr Sweden
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8225

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@Roxynemo

Awww, khaawp khoon maak maak kha for the thoughtful-ness. :) I look forward in viewing it via private mail.

Take care too kha :) fr U.S.A
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8227

  • anifer
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Thanks for sharing this with the community Cee!

It is just pure awesomeness to see Thai Politicians move towards marriage equality in Thailand, whatever their reasons behind the draft bill are.

The initiative for this bill begun when a gay couple was denied marriage license because under Thai law only a man and a woman are eligible. This will be determined by the gender titles stated in Thai IDs, which still discriminates against the transgender community as they will not benefit from this bill. In order to get married/registered, they would have to do so as their biological gender.

A complaint was filed to the National Human Rights Commission by the gay couple mentioned above and collaborations between the NHC and the Ministry of Justice's Department of Rights and Liberties to form a drafting committee consisting predominantly of Parliamentarians. A small group consisting members of the LGBT community were invited to join the participate. Anjana Suvarnananda of Anjaree was one of them.

The bill was drafted within less than two months and presented to the public at academic forums. However, the bill's existing 15 articles were not really discussed, and the events were seemed more like a panel for the committee to gain public support for their bill.

Initially, there were many concerns among the LGBT community advocating the issue as there have been mentions of requiring medical examination (for what only God knows) prior to registration, to name a few. (As of this day, the actual finalized bill is in its first phase of presentations in Parliament, yet no one in the community or the press have seen it)

MP Wirat, claims that this will be equal to Marriage. It is not so in legal mechanism and practice. For instance, the legal age of consent to marry among heterosexuals in Thailand is 17, yet this "Same-sex Partnership Bill" states "same-sex" couples, not marry, but register at the age of 20.

Thailand is a country where laws are not fully understood and upheld in practice. They remain vague and widely misinterpreted, and so must need precise wording in court and practice. Yet, MP Wirat states that the Civil and Penal Code already covers laws on family and children and so has excluded these articles from the Same-Sex Partnership Bill. There are only 15 Articles in the draft bill compared to the Civil and Penal Code which amounts to over a thousand articles.

During the last forum at Parliament House, the Sexual Diversity Network presented an open letter, stating concerns after studying the bill, requesting the committee to make amends which would truly show that the bill comes from the needs of the community. The requests fell on deaf ears as the committee stated it clear that they would make no such amendments to the bill and that the LGBT activists were asking too much and being greedy, their way of describing our call for equality and basic human rights.

During the FCCT Panel, MP Wirat failed miserably in the eyes of activists to address the community concerns and persisted on lobbying support for "his" bill. Numerous times he lobbied for signed petitions. Currently he has 4,000 and is in need of another 6,000. Now this is the part where everyone gets confused. He was not very forthcoming about Parliamentary procedures in presenting a law for legislation.
- In all the laws presented to Parliament in the past, only 20 MP petitions were required. Civilians will need to lobby for 10,000 petitions in order to present a "People's Bill". So for people who understand legal procedures, this is quite fishy, and are not proper democratic procedures. Yet, MP Wirat lures the audience into becoming members of the Legislative Committee in Parliament via their petitions.

MP Wirat's strategy, which he himself shared, was to put emphasis on this Bill enacted into law, as it is. Any person wishing to amend the bill would get to make recommendations as a committee member once the bill has been approved for debate in Parliament. Whether that be effective or not, is a question that many already have an answer for.

Lastly, again Anjana stated so herself that this would only mean further segregation and possible stigmatizing to have two separate laws administering the same issue. It remains vague how the Civil and Penal Code along with the Ministry of Interior's bylaws governing family and civil issues would be amended to allow for the Same sex Partnership Bill.
Laws concerning family and civil matters in Thailand use the term "marriage" and there is no guarantee, only vagueness from Wirat, on how there will be impediments on the same-sex partnership laws' practice.

Of course we (activists) support this progress, but...but....but.... oh, a gazillion buts!

Follow Anjaree on facebook to keep updated on Same-sex Partnership (not marriage, and yet to be equal) in Thailand.
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8228

  • anifer
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EDITORIAL
Same-sex union bill no cause for celebration
www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Same-se...ration-30204951.html


The Nation April 28, 2013 1:00 am
Lesbians, gays and others seek equal treatment under the law, not special favours and condescension



The recent move by the Parliamentary Commission on Law, Justice and Human Rights to legalise same-sex relationships came as a pleasant surprise to the local community of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgenders and intersex persons (LGBTIs). Three leading LGBTI activists were duly invited to sit on the working group established by the commission to prepare a draft.

However, the celebratory mood quickly evaporated when the voices of these representatives were heard but went largely unheeded. Indeed, the resulting bill provides cause for concerns. The exclusion of rights in regards to children - even biological ones from a previous marriage - deprives LGBTIs of opportunities to found a family. Worse, a "homosexuality test" was repeatedly mentioned as precondition for relationship registration under this law.

When LGBTI activists expressed their reservations at last week's public hearing, the bill's promoters told them they should feel lucky for not having been born Afghan or Iranian LGBTIs, to be thankful for the "favour" and stop being greedy. These shocking words reveal the prevalent cultural attitude regarding LGBTIs not as equals, but as pitiable inferiors - like beggars obliged to feel grateful for every mercy tossed into their bowls.

The bill's pushers should consult the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, which recognises inherent human dignity and equal, inalienable rights in all human beings. In other words, human rights are not a special favour or charity project. What lawmakers and governments must do is affirm these rights and removing the obstacles to their realisation.

Article 30 of our Constitution also prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender, which, its official statement of intention explicitly clarifies, refers not only to physical differences between males and females but also includes gender, sexual orientation and gender identity. This renders the Civil Code's chapter on marriage unconstitutional, not only for excluding same-sex couples but also for its prescribed inequality between husband and wife.

Without political will and interest to amend the outdated code, however, Thai lawmakers could have followed international good practices by enacting a new gender-neutral civil union law. Instead, they chose to write one specifically for two persons of the same gender - allegedly as a "favour" to LGBTIs. (None of the fourteen marriage-equality countries did this. South Africa enacted a new gender-neutral marriage law to augment its old ones. All remaining countries amended their marriage laws to remove gendered language.)

Separate is never equal; it has been proven time and again. This ill-conceived bill, if it becomes law, will be unconstitutional by formalising the segregation of LGBTIs. It can also be challenged for reverse discrimination by opposite-sex couples who may want to use it out of uneasiness with gender inequality in traditional marriage.

Besides the constitutionality issue, the bill's attempt to confine people in neat sex and gender boxes is problematic for transgenders and intersex persons. Writing sex and gender into law with no good reasons is an obstacle to future legal developments to guarantee equality and non-discrimination on the basis of gender.

By telling LGBTIs to be thankful for their lot, the bill's pushers reveal their view of LGBTI rights as "special rights" - to be given or withheld at will. This is exactly how hostile countries attack the rights of LGBTI, who they believe to be less than human and undeserving of any rights.

By telling LGBTIs to consider themselves lucky not having been born Afghans or Iranians, the bill's promoters unwittingly show how they are, in fact, identical to the very homophobes they feel superior to. All they can congratulate themselves on is having found a way to discriminate in the guise of human rights promotion and protection.
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 4 months ago #8229

  • duangkamol
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Aniferk, thanks for these updates... A "homosexuality test"? LOL, what about just havinga "loving relationship" test?

Anyway I hope there will be steps forward, even small ones like this... two steps forward, one step back, but seems will not be an end to the struggle.

I thought the constitutional issues were interesting, is there consideration of challenging the marriage law on those grounds?

Grace
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 4 years 3 months ago #8231

  • anifer
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You're welcome ka.

Our utmost priority is to ensure equality based on article 30 of the Thai constitution which bans discrimination based on sexual identity and orientation. Yet, in this archaic legal system, laws are holier than the bible-put on pedestals to be revered.

They are to be worshiped that way for all eternity and not to be amended.

That's what we get from legislators and lawyers.
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 3 years 8 months ago #8429

  • Knisely852
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legalizing same-sex marriage has been a debate in the political arena for the last several years. The United States does not allow same-sex marriage at this time, but there is a movement to legalize same-sex marriage and also a very strong opposition against legalizing it. My own view is that same-sex marriage should be legalized. I have some very dear friends who are gay and they should be able to get married.

Iphone Porn
Last Edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Knisely852.
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Panel discussion about Thai Same-Sex Marriage 3 years 8 months ago #8430

  • duangkamol
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I agree with you. It should be legal... Everywhere...

But the USA does recognize same-sex marriage, although individual states may not. I directly posed the question to the embassy here, and as long as a marriage is performed in a jurisdiction where legal it is recognized on a federal level, even if the couple were to live in a state where it is illegal...
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